Tuesday, November 15, 2005

Affirmative Action

I am sorry for the recent posts on minorities... but we are discussing this topic in Constitutional Law, so it has me thinking...

What good does affirmative action do?

The way I see it, the government/world should be colorblind. You shouldn't get a job/into college because you are black, white, hispanic, or asian. Affirmative action forces us to look at color and make distinctions between races. And minorities are for this? I thought they want to be equal? It is impossible to say that you want "equality" yet you are for affirmative action... at least the way I see it.

Why do you want to get a position that you are not qualified for? In our discussion yesterday, my professor made a point that poor blacks don't get as good of an education as whites and this is why affirmative action is necessary - because their test scores are not as high as whites and therefore they won't get into graduate schools such as law school/medical school. Well, it seems obvious to me that the remedy should not take place at the college, job, or graduate school level. I understand that our education system needs a mega face lift.. but people that are not qualified to get into these schools or hold certain jobs are getting in because of their skin color. Some say: they might not be qualified but it adds diversity. I am sorry... but I have not experienced ONE benefit of having a "diverse" school. Blacks, Hispanics, Gays, and Whites don't contribute enough to my classroom for a "diverse" education. The professors spend the majority of the time lecturing and if a student is being called on they are discussing a case from our assigned reading... not some life changing experience that is going to benefit us all.

Sorry to make this short... but I have to get to class!


Blogger The Anti-Liberali said...

This is from Texas Cynic... he forgot his screen name and sent it to me personally... I thought it would make for a great debate!
I agree with you...for once...affirmative action is pointless.

At the same time, something must be done.

You are an extremely intelligent lady and I know you realize that the "good ol' boy" system is still in place in many areas.

Let's talk specifically about the work place. I think affirmative action has gone way too far. You can't go around handing out jobs based solely on skin color or gender, but in essence that is what happens in many businesses throughout the South and all over the nation.

In college, I worked at a law firm in Tyler as a file clerk. The firm consisted of 20 or so attorneys and a support staff of about 50 people. All the attorneys were white males and all the support staff, with the exception of me, were white females. I remember asking one of the partners how they got away with that setup and he told me, "the janitors are our token blacks."

I'll be the first to admit, affirmative action will NEVER erase that sort of ignorance, but at the same time, how do you combat that mindset.

Republicans are always asking for our alternatives to the war in Iraq, I want to ask the Republicans for their alternatives to affirmative action.

10:55 PM  
Blogger Eddie said...

I think that affirmative action, and this may shock you, was actually needed at one time to open up the work force to people of color. It's very easy to automatically write someone off as not qualified for a job because you don't like their race, etc.

However, it has outlived its usefulness. Now, minorities can sue over anything even if they are sh1tty employees because they are of a different race. Furthermore, as per college, race shouldn't even be on any applications.

9:40 AM  
Blogger Smoke Eater said...

A/L - this all goes back to the fact that "the white man" is responsible for slavery, not even mentioning that pretty much ONLY Great Britain (as an entire country) did not allow slavery, and there were MANY Africans (black and white) SELLING THEIR FELLOW AFRICANS INTO SLAVERY, and therefore black people are now ENTITLED to have an UNFAIR advantage to get a job they ARE NOT qualified for. The other side of the coin is that they should be GIVEN the job only because they are black, and people like Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell are called "uncle toms" and "traitors" because (GASP) they actually studied and learned what they needed to in order to GET THE JOB ON MERIT, not race.

BTW - I'm not saying that affirmative action NEVER served a purpose, but why is it that now, any time a push is made to OUTLAW the practice of giving preference based on color (meaning that a company or the government CAN NOT use race, and will be punished if they do, as a criteria) is now "racist". Seems to me that forcing employers to be completely color blind is about as ANTI-RACIST as you can get!

11:31 AM  
Blogger Texas Cynic said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:01 PM  
Blogger Texas Cynic said...

Ok, I'm back.

Again, we are not talking about slavery nor are we playing the victim game.

I say affirmative action is wrong, but I also acknowledge there are a lot ignorant people in charge of hiring employees and recruting students who WILL play the race card and gender card.

Like I said, Republicans always ask Democrats to provide an alternative to the war in Iraq, I think it's only fair that Republicans offer the Democrats an alternative to affirmative action.

4:04 PM  
Blogger The Anti-Liberali said...

I think the student problem is easy... just don't put race on an application. They say that they are doing it for "diversity" reasons. But like I said in my post... I have not experience an ounce of "diversity" in law school. I think applications should be reviewed on their merit not race end of story. Plus the education system is run by liberalis now, so I don't think race would be a problem there... unless they are more racist then they care to admit!

As for jobs this is a tough one. There is no way to stop people from being racist. You can segregate schools all you want but you cannot force the white people to stay there and not run. It is ignorant, I know... but legal. I don't think that there is enough racism in the job market today that would require affirmative action. I am a woman... I am not treated as well as a man, and I don't want to be treated better, or given a position I don't deserve just because of my gender. I think a lot of blacks and women are successful today and it isn't because of their gender or skin color. So I guess what I am saying is that there is no solution to this problem. There will be a few ignorant hillbillies that are racist and don't want blacks or women working for them... but that isn't the majority. And for that reason I think affirmative action has ran its course and people need to start working off merit not their skin color.

I also think that it degrades anything that an intelligent minority does. Lets say a black gets into law school, every employer will question his admission into that law school... did he get in because he was just black or because he deserved it? The same goes for the job market... Did that woman get her job because she is a woman or because she deserved it? Just look around... you have MANY succesful blacks out there and they are all deemed to have gotten where they are just because they are black. Why do blacks except this? Why do they still want affirmative action to continue? The only reason I see that they would want it to continue is that they are getting free rides into something they don't deserve. They are hurting their race and their "equality" position and I find it hard to believe that a race that has been longing for equality really believes that using the race card is beneficial and actually doing something for their cause.

So Cynic... At this point in our country I don't think there is much else to do. People that are racist are few and far between and that will always be the case. I am sure there are racist blacks out there as well, that don't want to hire whites... are they required to do so? What would happen if we had a white only beauty pagent, or if I started the "white" law school club. I would be shunned and people would be furious. But yet, it is okay for them to have their own beauty pagents and for them to start a black/hispanic club. I feel that they are segregating themselves by acting in such a manner and that they are showing the rest of America that they believe themselves that they are inferior. I don't see skin color, I think everyone is equal to a certain extent (intelligence is a different story) but if they are going to create a barrier between themselves and whites then it almost becomes their problem... reverse discrimination is taking place in this country becasue we allow affirmative action and it is just not okay anymore.

Another point... the grade school system is what needs to get changed here in America for these problems to really start evening out. I don't think minorities should be allowed into schools they are not qualified for (this is including women)... but I understand that not many are as qualified because of our school system... this needs to be more of a priority.

9:19 AM  
Blogger Eddie said...

We shouldn't have government run, public schools to begin with. I believe it's parents that effect educational achievement, and the schools are only a secondary factor.

11:12 AM  
Blogger The Anti-Liberali said...

Parents are the most important people in a childs education... but like racists, you cannot force a parent to be a good parent and help their child. The state has to be accountable to the education system at some point - the school needs funds etc... but I am tired of the liberals wanted everyone to watch their p's and q's and turning our children into sissy's that cannot stand up for themselves. We shouldn't have to tip toe around issues because we are scared to hurt people's feelings.

11:23 AM  
Blogger whigwham said...

3 cheers for school vouchers! hip hip...ok. regarding the value of diversity, i don't think opponents of affirmative action have to even necessarily deny the value of diversity. I think it was either Scalia or Rehnquist who, during the last AA case before the Court (about U of M's law school admission policy), said that if the school is concerned about diversity, fine. just lower your admissions standards so that you can accomodate a diverse student body. the school, he said (during oral questioning i believe), has to pick between two values: diversity and top-notch educational quality. the problem-- the injustice--comes in when you try to do both, thus discriminating against qualified applicants based solely on skin color.

3:30 PM  
Blogger Texas Cynic said...

Why is it that as Anglo-Saxons we are made to feel ashamed for being white?

I eat lunch with the same three girls at work everyday (1 black/asian, 2 hispanic/anglos)

They always give me a hard time for being white and then today, the two Hispanic/Anglo girls told me they are embarassed to be part white.

What's up with that?

I'm not trying to start a white power rally or anything, but I wouldn't change who I am for the world.

4:18 PM  
Blogger whigwham said...

i was engaging in a bit of nostalgic music listening, and i experienced a singular moment of musical-political clarity. thanks to good old scott stapp from the 90s creed days. in a similar vein to what a-l said earlier, it may be that the greatest argument against AA is that it is, in reality, self-defeating. what is the goal, really? is to get a proportional number of minorities in every field and profession? or is it to promote and instantiate a hiring system which acknowledges the fundamental unity between people of different ethnicities. thus, in such a system, racial discrimination would make no sense.
so, whether or not it's admitted, it seems like this is (or should be) the motivation of AA. but what a horrible way to provide for this goal! for resentment is what inevitably follows. both from those majorities being discriminated against and from the minorities (as a-l pointed out) who wonder if they and others think themselves truly qualified. dissension then follows and the goal of unity is undermined. thus, AA is self-defeating. the goal is great, the method is atrocious.
sorry if all this unity talk is a bit bleeding-heart...i'll chalk it up to a night of nostalgic music listening. here's scott to explain:
Affirmative may be justified
Take from one give to another
The goal is to be unified
Take my hand be my brother
The payment silenced the masses
Sanctified by oppression
Unity took a backseat
Sliding further in regression

One, oh one,
The only way is one
I feel angry I feel helpless
Want to change the world
I feel violent I feel alone
Don't try and change my mind

Society blind by color
Why hold down one to raise another
Discrimination now on both sides
Seeds of hate blossom further
The world is heading for mutiny
When all we want is unity
We may rise and fall, but in the end
We meet our fate together

10:19 PM  
Blogger American Idiot said...

not that the song is really relevant but since i am not much of a scott stapp fan (in fact i think he is a pompous douche bag---even though i don't mind creed's music) i figured i would post a song of my own by the incredibly talented BRANDON BOYD...i argue that the song is about george w bush but i have heard it said that the song actually is about scott stapp. you can decide....

If I were your appendages
I'd hold open your eyes
So you would see
That all of us are heaven sent
There was never meant to be only one
To be only one

Hey megalomaniac
You're no Jesus
Yeah, you're no fucking Elvis
Wash your, hands clean of yourself, maniac
Step down
Step down
You're no Jesus
You're not Elvis
You're no answer

Hey megalomaniac
You're not Jesus
Yeah, you're no fucking Elvis
Special, as you know yourself, maniac
Step down

6:15 AM  
Blogger The Anti-Liberali said...

Well I don't believe that song was about GWB. It really doesn't make sense anyways. Why would he use Elvis in comparing GWB?

Leave it to AI to bring up an off topic song though!

Cynic you bring up a great question... but I am going to add something to it. Why is it that we are supposed to be ashamed of being white AND Christian? Today it seems that not only are we supposed to be ashamed of being white but Christian as well. Color of skin is just as relevant today as it was 30 years ago because of AA and all of the backlash. And Christianity is being attacked by the liberals non-stop as if it is Satanism... why? Because we believe in the bible, and morals etc...?

6:47 AM  
Blogger The Anti-Liberali said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11:47 AM  

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